ChevelleForum.net

Go Back   Chevrolet Chevelle Forums > Chevrolet Chevelle Garage > Chevelle Suspension & Chassis

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-20-2016, 07:32 PM
paulywood paulywood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 118
Default Tall ball joints+drop spindles=problem?

I put the 2" drop spindles on my car to lower the front end. After reading about the advantages of the tall ball joints I decided to also install those while I was doing the front end. But now I think I might have issues. The first is if there will be enough adjustment with the stock control arms. The tires are toed way in. The 2nd is that I had to crank the tie rod ends all the way in just to get them installed and I think they still need to go in more. I think I might pull them back off and cut an inch off the end of each one to make sure there is enough adjustment when I get it aligned. But if I need to replace the control arms (upper, lower or both?) I would like to do it all at once. Any opinions? I can get a picture if it helps.
__________________
1972 Chevelle Malibu Convertible Project
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-22-2016, 04:37 PM
Hank70SS's Avatar
Hank70SS Hank70SS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brighton, MI
Posts: 4,474
Default

I'm confused? You said the tires are toed way in. Then you said the tie rods are all the way in and you may have to cut them. The tie rods control the toe in, if you cut them they will increase the toe in. Are you maybe referring to camber?

Toe is the difference between the distance between the front edge of the tires vs the rear of the tires. Camber is the tilt or lean of the wheel/tries in or out from top to bottom. Caster is the forward/rearward tilt of the spindle, upper ball joint vs lower ball joint.

You probably know all this but I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. So if you could explain this more or maybe a picture that would help.

Oh, I think I know what you may be saying. Do your drop spindles change the distance between the ball joints? If the distance has increased, which is desirable, then you add tall ball joints as well I could see that causing the problem I think you may be describing.
__________________
Hank

70 Chevelle SS396(454), M20, 3.73
My Chevelle
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-22-2016, 04:44 PM
Hank70SS's Avatar
Hank70SS Hank70SS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brighton, MI
Posts: 4,474
Default

Okay, I looked at some drop spindles for Chevelles and at least some are taller. Adding a tall ball joint on top of that could really mess up the camber.
__________________
Hank

70 Chevelle SS396(454), M20, 3.73
My Chevelle
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-22-2016, 06:58 PM
paulywood paulywood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 118
Default

Sorry Hank, I misspoke and didn't explain it very well. The tires are toed out which I think I can fix with shortening the tie rods. The camber is out on the top quite a bit. I can get a picture with a level to show it if that would help. I'm not sure how much adjustment there is with the shims. It's a pretty dramatic change.
__________________
1972 Chevelle Malibu Convertible Project
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-23-2016, 07:12 AM
Hank70SS's Avatar
Hank70SS Hank70SS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brighton, MI
Posts: 4,474
Default

I still think the combination of a tall spindle and tall ball joints is part of the problem. The upper control arm normally drops to the ball joint. A tall spindle will bring the control arm up to a more level position and push the top of the wheel out. Now add a tall ball joint and you've pushed it out more. I would definitely find out if your spindles are considered tall spindles. If so great but you don't want to add tall ball joints as well. What brand spindles are they?

As far as toe in? A tall spindle or tall ball joint or both should increase toe in assuming length of idler arm is unchanged. Perhaps the attachment point on the new spindles is different than on stock spindles. You might want to contact manufacturer of spindles to get some answers about tall or not and toe in.
__________________
Hank

70 Chevelle SS396(454), M20, 3.73
My Chevelle
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-23-2016, 12:50 PM
paulywood paulywood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 118
Default

These are the ones I put on:
http://www.ecklerschevelle.com/cheve...1964-1972.html
I will have to check into it a little more to see how far off the camber is and how much it can be adjusted. I think the toe changed due to the different angle of the connection on the new spindle. But I'm not sure the control arm can be shimmed enough to correct the camber issue.
__________________
1972 Chevelle Malibu Convertible Project
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-23-2016, 06:23 PM
Hank70SS's Avatar
Hank70SS Hank70SS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brighton, MI
Posts: 4,474
Default

Well they don't show the manufacturer of the spindles so I guess you need to call Eckler's. I wouldn't try to add shims to fix the camber until you know if they're tall spindles. The GM a-body had a problem with camber that tall ball joints or tall spindles can fix. Adding both will just cause a different suspension problem.
__________________
Hank

70 Chevelle SS396(454), M20, 3.73
My Chevelle
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-25-2016, 04:29 PM
paulywood paulywood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 118
Default

Yeah, I understand what you mean now. I'm going to take some measurements this weekend. Wish I had kept the originals so I could compare but I threw them out when we moved last spring. I might just have to change the ball joints back to the originals which would be cheaper than changer out control arms. Thanks for the help Hank.
__________________
1972 Chevelle Malibu Convertible Project
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-26-2016, 07:30 PM
paulywood paulywood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 118
Default

I took some measurements today while the car was up on ramps. I'll have to make some calls on Monday but at least I have some information now. The inside spindle measurement was 5 1/2", the outside spindle measurement was 7 1/8" and the inside of the control arms measurement was 10". I couldn't measure the outside of the control arms accurately but figured what I have should work.
__________________
1972 Chevelle Malibu Convertible Project
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-27-2016, 07:09 AM
Hank70SS's Avatar
Hank70SS Hank70SS is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Brighton, MI
Posts: 4,474
Default

Not sure what you mean by inside and outside. The measurement you need is from the seat where the upper ball joint mounts in the spindle to the seat for the lower ball joint. Compare that distance on a stock spindle to determine if it's a tall spindle. Or call Ecklers and ask them.
__________________
Hank

70 Chevelle SS396(454), M20, 3.73
My Chevelle
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Audiokarma.org