My neighbors 'new' 70 SS convertible.
 

I mentioned in the Frankenmuth thread that my neighbor was having a SS clone built. It was originally supposed to be done in May, just arrived Friday. I feel so bad for this guy, there are so many things wrong with this car. He went to see it last Monday, out of state and okayed the deal and they delivered it Friday.

Car was idling at 1,200 RPM, guy claimed the engine was still tight, ZZ454 crate engine, and the idle needed to be up so when the AC was kicked on it wouldn't kill the engine, Vintage Air system. He played with the idle a little but it would stall if he tried to bring the rpms down at all. Bogged in neutral if you hit the gas. I adjusted the carb a little today and brought the idle down to 750 and no bog. RPMs drop a little with AC on but still idles nice. I'll check the timing and throw a vacuum gauge on later to adjust the carb better, it still runs hot at idle.

All the bolts under the hood are silver, not chrome, looks like they're plated. You know, all the bolts that should be black oxide. They jump right out and not in a nice way.

Steering shaft, front sway bar, hood latch, rear control arms are all painted a silver/gray color. Just looks all wrong.

Rear taillight lens look to be original with half the silver striping worn off.

Convertible top doesn't come down properly, side rails are not in a straight line when the top is down so the windows won't seal up. The door windows overlap the chrome strip at the top of the quarter windows and barely touch the rubber seal at the bottom. Better not get caught in the rain. Guy claimed it was due to the after market power window stuff, tough, make it right or don't offer it as an option.

The dash pad must be missing the spring clips that hold it down to the metal frame below, You can see right under the pad when looking through the windshield.

I could go on but I'll stop now. I just wish he had asked me to go check this car out before he got it. I know he paid a fortune and I know these guys saw him coming. I won't mention any names but if anyone is thinking of having a car restored, PM me so you don't get hooked up with these guys.

BTW, my neighbor talked to Chuck Hanson and he claimed these guys do nice work. Maybe they do nice work if you really know Chevelles, my neighbor doesn't. Worst part, all my neighbor can say about the owner is 'What a nice guy.'

Hank, I feel for the guy. But I will say that I thought the same way as him before I started talking to and seeing some of the beautiful cars out there. I think that many people "take the word" of shops that are "recommended" by other car guys.


This guy is lucky to have you for a neighbor, and a car guy.

It is tough because everything is so subjective. What might be perfect to one might have noticeable and obvious flaws to another.

Sorry to hear that. To many people get taken by some that think they know how to build a chevelle.

They did a nice job on the frame and sheet metal. Paint is nice except for a couple of small flaws. Most of the issues are minor details I think a restoration shop would pay attention too. Thing is I checked their website. They have pics of cars during the restoration and I didn't see some of the flaws on those cars that are on my neighbors. Like the rear control arms were painted black not silver/grey like his. The front sway bars were painted with a 'cast' paint which looks more correct than the silver/grey he got, even has the factory tags.

Like I said, I think they saw him coming and could tell he doesn't know what's correct and what's not so they cut corners. They didn't cut those corners on the other cars. Oh well, if he's happy that's all that counts. I'm not going to say anything about what I see, I just hope he doesn't go to a cruise-in and have somebody start tearing his car apart. I think that would really burst his bubble, then he'd be pissed instead of happy with his new car. Overall it's a nice looking car, I'd love to have it. I'm just pissed they didn't go that extra step and make it right for him. I really believe they took advantage of him and it makes me mad.

Don't let Ray see it...ha

I'm not too worried about it Ric. Ray may tell me what he see's but I don't think he'd say anything to Darryl, unless of course he asked Ray. Don't think he knows enough to even ask.

I think if I was this guy. Even with the excitement of finally getting my car. I would appreciate someone telling me the things that this shop did not do correctly. It is soon enough after getting the car that maybe the shop could correct it.

I think it's a little late for that Nancy. The shop is in PA, Darryl checked the car over last week Monday before delivery and a few times previously. How do you go back now and say this is wrong and this is wrong, especially when the shop is a 9 hr drive away.

I don't want to say anything, he might think I'm trashing his car or the fact that he should have known better. He really should have had another pair of eyes with him when he went to look at it.

Someone will say something sooner or later. Let them be the bearer of bad news.

Hank, I still feel like there would be a way for you to ease into talking to this guy. Maybe ask him why he chose to have the control arms painted that color ? I know that I am asked all the time why my engine block is black, did someone mess up ? I tell them NO, I chose to do that. I still feel that instead of telling him it is wrong, that maybe asking him questions about some of the "errors" might help him realize that he has some work to do, that is if he wants to.

You are in a tough spot, but with your knowledge of cars I think that he would respect your input.

Ray, that's what I was thinking. Then if it bothers him and he wants to fix it, I'll help him out.

Nancy, he has enough going on right now, I'm not going to say a thing. He found an oil leak, we checked it out and it's either the rear main or the pan gasket below the rear main. Hard to tell laying on the ground under the car. While under there I noticed one of the front lower control arm bolts was close to a 1/4" from being tight. I recall the him saying the car was sitting high. I bet they loosened the control arm bolts to get the front end to settle. He tightened it up and thought he was done. I suggested he check the other 3, sure enough, all were loose.

Also noticed no grease in any of the front suspension, idler arms, ball joints, etc. That will turn a brand new suspension into a 40 year old suspension real quick. While looking around up top I thought I would check the bolts on the end of the cross shaft on the upper control arms, yup, none of them were tight.

I don't know what to do. I want it to be safe for him but I didn't build it and I don't want to start telling him these guys are crap. He chose them, me telling him they're crap is a insult. I'll let him figure that out on his own, think he's almost there, then we can go forward.

Blah! Blah! Blah!, sorry to ramble on, it just pisses me off. I would have told these guys to stuff it, I don't want that car unless you can make it right. I bet he has at least $80k into this and it should be perfect.

Hank, if you guys want to take a ride up to my place we can put it on the lift and check the oil leak and see if anything else is loose.

Thanks for the offer Ric, I'll let him know. Right now he's trying to figure out how to deal with engine leak. It's a GM crate engine, ZZ454, so it's under warranty, but he didn't buy an engine from GM, he bought a car from XXX. He needs to find a GM dealer that can fix the leak, if it's the rear main that's under warranty. Removing the trans or engine to do it is not covered so will XXX pay for that. Either way it's going to be a pain to deal with.

Hank, shoot me a PM with the restorers name.

Oh man, this poor guy. Hank, you and Tony are so cool helping this guy. It sounds like he needs your expertise.

If Im ever in need I want Hank and Tony in my corner .Im glad ya'll are helping him out .

I agree if he has 80k in it should be perfect. Good to here you guys are helping this guy out.

I think adjusting the convertible top frame and windows might be an even bigger job than the oil leak. The little research I've done shows 3 adjustments on each side for the top frame and it ain't easy. Then you have door and quarter windows to adjust as well.

Tony, I'll shoot you a PM, you'll get a laugh when you see the name of this place.

Got the PM Hank. Now that's a hoot! If you want me to come down and give you guys a hand, pick a day and let me know.

Thanks Tony, you're welcome to come down anytime. Drag Kathy along and we'll make an afternoon out of it. Hey, maybe we can drag Ray out of his cave too. Of course Ric is always welcome too.

As far as his car, I'm trying to step back and let him decide how to proceed, he's a funny guy. A nice guy, great neighbor and good friend but... well I'll leave it at that.

He knows some of the things that are wrong, runs hot, wouldn't idle for shit, windows don't line up, top doesn't seal, oil leak, loose control arm bolts, no grease in front end. I've told him more than once that I'd be glad to help and he can borrow any tools he needs anytime he needs them.

He's funny though, "Well I need to buy my own tools, I can't be borrowing yours all the time and I need to learn how to do this stuff. I don't want to be coming over all the time bothering you."

I told him, yes you can borrow my tools, why buy something you may only use once if I have it. You can learn on your own but you'll screw up a lot just like I did. Maybe I can help you from screwing just a little. As far as bothering me, hell I'm retired, what else do I have to do, besides I like playing with Chevelles.

Anyway, it's only been a week, he needs to get over the new car excitement. Then maybe decide how he wants to take care of all this stuff. He knows he'll need some help, he's just reluctant to ask.

BTW: You didn't get any tickets in the mail from when I drove the Nomad did you? I hope not, I don't think they have a lot of video cameras in Frankenmuth so you're probably okay. If you do I think you can use your BI 'Perks Club" earnings to pay them.

BTW: You didn't get any tickets in the mail from when I drove the Nomad did you? I hope not, I don't think they have a lot of video cameras in Frankenmuth so you're probably okay. If you do I think you can use your BI 'Perks Club" earnings to pay them.


Well that explains the 500 dollar ticket that arrived in the mail from the FPD. Says that I was "driveing recklessly and appeared to be intoxicated". I guess that beings I'm such a fair guy, just send me half of the fine and I'll cover the rest.

I'll get that check in the mail today Tony. Our mail man is pretty unreliable so no telling how long it will take to get there.

So the latest is he's going to take it to a local GM dealer so they can put in on a hoist and determine if it's a rear main or oil pan leaking. Then, regardless of results he's renting a trailer and hauling it to the OH-PA border where the builder will take it the rest of the way. They'll take care of the problem then reverse the process, meet at the OH-PA border, to return the car.

Not sure why he needs to take it to a dealer if the builder is going to deal with the problem whatever it is.

Oh this is good. old guy that lives next to Darryl, across the street from me, was a manager of an engineering group at the GM Milford proving grounds and the Warren tech center for like 200 years. Okay, I exaggerated, he's 81 and just retired a couple years ago. Started at GM as a teenager, I hear they forced him out.

Anyway, he says GM won't warranty the rear main seal because they didn't install the engine. The installer could have nicked the seal while installing the trans so they won't cover it. Let's see, you have a 14" diameter flywheel bolted to the end of the crankshaft, along with the clutch assembly, while trying to installing the trans. You could hurl that trans at the back of the engine all day long and never hit the rear main seal. Might screw-up the clutch assembly, hell, maybe even bend the end of the crank but you'll never get close to the rear main seal.

Even with no flywheel you would have to work pretty hard with a pick or something to nick the rear main seal once it's installed. I decided to concede and walk away. It's a mute point since the builder is going to deal with the issue whatever the problem is. Got better things to do than debate the issue with an 81 year old guy.

Oh, this is good too. I should stop but this IS good. Okay, maybe I'll start a new post, "My neighbor Gus"

Hank,

If it turns out to be the rear main seal, I hope they install a Felpro one piece pan gasket when they reinstall the oil pan.

Engine comes with a 7 gt pan with 1 piece pan gasket. The GM 4 qt pan kit, which the claim they used, comes with a new 1 piece pan gasket. Also a dipstick, new oil pickup and 4 main cap bolts. You have to remove the windage tray and the 4 studs that it mounts to.

I used the GM kit on my 454HO and reused the gasket that came on the engine, it was still brand new. About the only thing you can do to that gasket is over tighten the pan.

Wow. What a mess. I hope he gets it straightened out.

Well Nancy, I got a chance to mention the other stuff I saw. I needed the right time to bring it up. He was already a little pissed about no grease in the front suspension and loose control arm bolts. I asked him if he was going to have them adjust the convertible top rails while they had the car and he said yes. We had looked at before I and it was obvious there was still an 'S' in the rail when the top was up. I also said once they got that right they needed to adjust the window properly.

He said he already started a list of things and told Tony that if they couldn't adjust the windows properly he wanted them to reinstall the non-power windows. I had mentioned before Tony's excuse about after market stuff didn't fly. If they're that bad he should have told Darryl up front, not use it as an excuse later.

So I mentioned the dash pad and showed him. Actually the pad is at least an inch further away from the windshield on the passenger side. I also asked why the rear lower control arms were silver when they should be black like the frame, he said he would ask.

So he brought it over today so we could check the timing and adjust the carb. I would say they used an impact wrench to tighten down the distributor but I know you can't get one in there. I did hit the vacuum advance can while loosing it. It moved a little and I tried to put it back to where it was, I wanted to know where they had it timed at.

Well when I checked it, it was at 4* after TDC. I'm sure I didn't get it back exactly where it was but I know it wasn't more than a few degrees off. I set it to 14* for a start and adjusted the carb. While adjusting the timing and the carb the temp only went to around 190. It was over 200 when they were messing with it the day they delivered the car and it was cooler outside that day then today.

Oh, he told me that Tony said they have an engine guy that spends 5 hrs setting up the engine. Maybe 4hr 59 minutes sitting in a chair next to it and 60 seconds getting it to idle at 1,200 rpm without stalling.

Hank, it sounds like he was willing to listen to what you had to say about the car. He seemed to have taken it well, and according to your post he even had more items to add to his list after talking with you. I am glad that you were able to talk to him about it, and I bet you might even feel a little better having that off your chest. Now lets hope that he is able to get all the problems taken care of. I am keeping my fingers crossed for him. Let us know the progress.

He does trust what I say, God knows why, and has quite a list for them. I just needed to hear from him that he wasn't happy and wanted to find out what else I thought.

Like I said, it can be a tricky situation. Don't want to insult the guy or his car, needed to know he was looking for input.

Hank, he has seen what you drive and how you take care of your cars. So, yes, he has to know that you are a car guy and since you are his neighbor it probably didn't hurt as much. Like you said in a past post, it probably wouldn't have been so easy to hear from a stranger, especially if it was at a car show.

Well Darryl came over yesterday and said he was picking up a trailer later and asked if I would help him load his car on it. He left this morning to take it back. I hadn't seen him since looking at his car on Saturday and asked if it was any better. He said "Oh man, it's like a different car. No backfire, idles great and a lot more power. Even Vickie could tell the difference."

I guess he's really pissed now. He talked to the builder and asked him what they did to setup the engine. The guy told him their engine guy spent a couple of hours with his engine. Darryl told him he must have spent the time sitting in a chair next to it because it ran like crap. Then asked what the guy was supposed to have done and was told "Adjust the timing and carb'"

So Darryl told him his neighbor looked at it and that it was running great now. The guy asked "What did your neighbor do?" Darryl told him "Adjust the timing and the carb." There was silence on the other end, the guy had no response.

I think Darryl's eyes finally opened, he was pointing out some things that he didn't like. I hope this guy takes care of the major issues for him. I know he won't take care of everything but some things definitely need fixing. Too bad he was blinded by the "new car light" when he checked the car out. He doesn't have a lot of leverage now that he's paid in full.

I agree, he should have had someone else with him. Like I said, he's seeing things now he missed before, another pair of eyes is always good. Someone that knows Chevelles or at least cars in general would be even better.

The builder has no problem taking care of the trans, said he'll make it right. As far as the top, windows and dash pad, guess we'll have to wait and see.

You are a good guy Hank. I am sure he really appreciated your input, maybe after talking to you he had the courage to stand up for himself and tell the guy what was wrong.

You obviously don't know me very well Nancy, I'm sure Ric and Tony will have something to add on this subject.

Darryl is a good neighbor and good friend. I'm just trying to be the same.

Hank is a pretty decent guy, what with his mental handicap and all.

Always good to have friends who support you no matter what. lol

Damn Tony, I was sure Ric would jump on that first. Hey, none of us is perfect. :banana: Oh look, a bunny!

Ric has been too busy trying to get the clock working in the Camaro to do any internet stuff. He'll be along shortly.