EPA madness...my story with them
 

I bought 20 acres of land in Citrus County Florida. There are thousands of trees, there are some protected wetlands, there is approximately 1/4 mile river-frontage on the Withlacootchie River. I have applied for my building permits with the County, which is an expensive and detailed process. Everything was going along smoothly, until this past Tuesday. In June of 2012, the County adopted the new EPA rules concerning "Water-front lots". My building will be 1200 feet from the River, 400 feet from the wetlands. Because I may someday wash my car in the drive-way, where some oil may have leaked from an automobile onto said drive-way, I have to have an "Engineered Storm Water Drainage System". I have to have a Civil Engineer draw up a plan, calculate the rain-water run-off from the roofs, then have it approved by the County Engineer, and then build it. The Civil Engineer has to come back out and do a topographical survey for elevations, not cheap, he has to draw the plan and stamp it with his Florida Seal, at a cost of over 2000 bucks.. I have to dig a retention pond and add a berm all around the cleared land where the buildings will be. The EPA has no common sense at all. Both Engineering companies that I sent my site plan to stated that it is absurd what they are demanding. I agree.

They have given you nothing but a hard time from the get go. Have you considered selling this land and going somewhere else ?

That was the OTHER property that I had. It was the HOA that gave me all the grief there. After dealing with attorneys on that ordeal, the HOA finally agreed to let me build, but the garage couldn't be as many square feet as I wanted. I sold that 3 acres and bought this 20 acres.

Are you sure you want to be in Florida ??? Just asking. :)

Damn Tony, was hoping you were done with all this crap.

I just want my own place in the middle of the woods, with no neighbors around me. I want to be able to open any door or window and fire a gun. I plan to spend part of the winter there.

I really thought that I was done with all the BS. Then this little weasel of an Engineer, six months out of school, thinks that riverfront property is the same as a riverfront lot. There isn't anything written in the EPA rules to differentiate either. Stinking government. Obama loving clown is what he is.

Wow, maybe you and Florida aren't meant for each other. Along with engineering costs that's going to cost quite a junk to do what they want.

Hank, I'm supposed to get the Engineered drawings on Monday or Tuesday. Depending on what it says, I may pull the plug again on Florida property. I can sell the 20 acres and make a pretty decent profit. I'm not going to spend thousands more on their ignorant EPA bullshit.

So, I was thinking, it happens sometimes and I have no control over it. You want to build on a riverfront lot so you have to follow this rule/law. Doesn't matter what size your lot is or where you're building, it has riverfront so the rule applies. Sounds like one of those brilliant one size fits all laws our gubment comes up with.

What if there is one lot with riverfront and wetlands and you built on another lot that bordered that lot but didn't have riverfront/wetlands, what then? Could you subdivide your property into 2 lots and build on the one without riverfront and avoid this law? I don't know, a few beers and this crazy stuff just comes out but it might be worth looking into.

Hah!! Great minds think alike Hank. I already tried this route. I would have to have a new survey done for a lot re-configuration. Then my tax's would go up, due to having a seperate lot. I would pay tax's on the individual lot, them pay them on the rest of the property as a seperate lot. I checked into getting the 20 acres, minus the lot, classified and taxed at Ag-Exempt. They will do that if I put at least two cows on the place. I really don't want to be a cowboy. One of the guys on TC has dealt with these idiots too. He suggested that I contact the EPA down there directly, instead of going through the County. I may try that, but then again, I'm alsost skeered to get any more gov officials involved. I already have had a run-in with the DEQ down there. The idiot woman that came out tried to tell Doug and I that the tire tracks made by a back-hoe were "where two streams ran side by side" and made a "creek". I was dumbfounded anyone could be that stupid and have her position.

Sorry to hear about this Tony,you have a lot more patience than I do. It looks like Flordia and the US Govt does not want anymore people in Florida.

I hate to see you spend all your hard earned money on such bull#$%.

Can you get a couple of fake cows like the fake deer you use for target practice. Just keep the EPA people at a distance. Tell them the cows have pretty bad tempers and they shouldn't get too close. Carry a shotgun when they're there, tell them it's in case the cows charge you.

Are you sure that cows are the right thing to keep the EPA people away ? Cows are not really scary, are they ??? lol

Haha... Maybe some goats, and tell them "Careful, they like to hump!"

No they're not real scary but he needs 2 cows to get the lot zoned agricultural which drops the taxes to almost nothing. When you drive through Fl you'll see small strips of land everywhere with some cows on them. People buy the land hoping to sell in the future for a big profit. In the meantime they stick a couple of cows on the land so the taxes are low.

After a week of dealing with some of the most incompetent people I have ever dealt with, I have an Engineered drawing for the County. 1500 bucks for the Engineer to do some calculating and draw a picture. What a rip. I have to put up a 2' high berm, about 600' in length and dig a small pond the total length, about20' wide. There has to be silt filter material all along the banks, 3' in height. After e-mailing and talking on the phone to the the goons at the EPA, i am now 100% sure that they hire the most ignorant people they can find.

Our government at work, makes you proud to be an American doesn't it. You can always tear down the silt fence later if you want.

Heck, then I would have a couple cows and maybe a couple goats to eat the grass. lol

In all this dealing with different agencies, I found out that if I lease the cleared land for baling hay, I can get the Ag-Exempt. I'll be talking to some of the ranchers about that. Also, if I plant blueberries and sell tham at a stand at the road, same thing. I like blueberries.

Ha! I can see Tony standing at a roadside stand selling blueberries. Let me know when the stand is open, I'd make a special trip to Fl just to see that.

Me too, I say go for it.

Road trip Ric!

It's 1,100 miles to the blueberry stand, we have a full tank of gas, half a pack of a cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

Hit it.

Blue Berries $5.00 / pint

Some poor sap "How about $9.00 for 2 pints?"

Tony "Does this look like G. D. garage sale, get the F' out of here!"

You guys crack me up! ELWOOOD, BRING THEM #&*$%#& BERRIES OUT HERE TO JAKE!!!!!! REALLY, IM LAUGHING MY ASS OFF!!!!!! Made my night. I have been sad for a couple of hours. Chevelle left for Arizona. He has it entered in a big show Saturday in Tuscon.

Sorry to hear that, and I know the buyer will be happy when he sees it and checks it out as I know it was listed accurate. It is a clean car and I would have been proud to own it.

You must have room for the Camaro and my truck now for winter storage. When can I bring them over?

Also, I have printer and the drivers for it and Hank and I will come over one of these days when I take a day off of supporting all you freeloaders through our government deductions.

Now you will be able to print all those words that are floating through the air and read them on paper.

No room for you!!!! in by best soup-nazi voice. I can keep the SS Ford tractor over here in the heat this winter comfortably now. And none of the cars will have to be in cold storage.

Why do I need a "driver" for the printer? Do I have to feed and cloth the "driver"? Will he live in the garage? Does he have a license?

Are you capable of driving the printer yourself? You have no experience driving a printer so to be safe you should get a driver. Doesn't have to be a live in driver.

Glad we could give you a few chuckles Tony. The Chevelle was a beauty but you didn't drive it so time to part ways. Use the money to buy materials for the blueberry stand, maybe 2,000 sq ft, AC, flat screen TV. They'll be times when business is slow, might as well be comfortable.

I'll only accept an EPA certified driver then.

So you have no problem with the Camaro sitting outside on blocks with snow piling up on it...maybe even the dog chained to the bumper? All so your ass can get on the warm seat on the SS Ford and that is even if you are in Florida selling your "Blue Berries" on the side of the Road.

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The "Driver" has a name and it is Peaches, and she is a 22 year old blonde that is working her way through school, but if you don't think you need her I will not bring her. I'd send pictures of her, but I know how you hate when all the pop-ups keep coming up on your computer.


I'm sure she is working on her certification, not sure if it EPA approved though.

Let's do it. We will take the Nomad and Tony's gas card as this will save the expense for Tony for our hotel rooms on the way down. I'm sure he will be be setting us up at the Four Seasons once we get down so we can work as his farm picking the blue berries or what ever else he decides to grow. :cool: With those 4:56 gears and the M22 Rock Crusher it may take a while to get there, but it would be a fun trip.

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Oh man, I likes me some peaches. I see by your picture that you finally cleaned your Camaro up. Looks a lot better than the last time I saw it. This old ass needs all the heat it can get anymore. I'm freezing this morning and it's only 32 degrees.


Just wait until a Saturday before you guys come over. Aint no sense in missing work. Keep my pay-check coming.

Tony, have you thought about getting a couple dairy cows for the property. That way, you have fresh milk with your blueberries in the mornings. I'm sure Hank and Ric would up to milking the cows and picking a few berries for you.
You guys are hilarious! :D

I was thinking the '34 but there isn't much room for luggage, guess the Nomad would be better. I have a Kroger card, it'll save us, I mean Tony, on gas on the way down. We can throw the grille in the back, cook some steaks in the Kroger parking lot. The more steaks, sam'iches and beer we buy, I mean Tony buys, on the way down the more he'll save on gas. It's a win-win for everyone.

Man, what a bunch. Now see, Brian must be college educated to come with a brilliant idea like that. Fresh milk and fresh blueberries. Don't get much better than that.


Ric, where did that picture of the Nomad come from? That was a few years ago at the Bricks. My buddy Bobs Nova is next to it.

No wait!! The seats fold down in the 34! You can strap the luggage to the top of the car. It has overdrive! Save me some cash on gas that way.

Or I could just hire some of the Mesicans to do the berry pickin. Don't sound like it would be as much fun though.

You guys can "camp-out" in the Nomad. Ought to be a real fun trip. Like when I was younger and a bunch of us would jump in my van and head to Florida. Course, we had some pills to help keep us awake. Seems like it only took about 4 hours to get ther.

Luggage, I'm just bringing a couple spare pair of speedo's and some mesh wife beaters shirts and fit right in down there in Flordu. They will fit in a Hamady sack (I'm sure Tony is the only one on here besides me that knows what a Hamady sack is)


Brian coming with us as we will need all of to do the picking, cutting, drying and packaging of the "Blue Berries".

The picture was from Back at the Bricks, you were to good to park with us because you got to park on the flat lot while I peons parked with the common folks.

I broke it to Haley today that Uncle Tony won't let me park the Camaro over there so she will have to scrape windows this winter, she was heart broken.

Well Ric, now that the Chevelle is in Arizona, I do have some free space for winter parking. I'm thinking 43.78 a day should cover it. How many spaces do you and Haley need? That dirt in Florida is exspensive and somebody has to pay for it. Might as well be you, seeing as how you are still working full time.

Interesting amount you came up,with there $1357.18 a month is such a good deal how could Pass that up, I'll be right there.

When we built we had to bring in 1000 yards of sand and then 200 yards of top soil and 50 tons of boulders so I feel your pain.

Ric, grab that deal. Most places charge by the month. At 43.78 a day that's only $1225.84 for February.